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Post by Admin on Dec 28, 2014 16:41:33 GMT
One prominent complementarian leader, Bruce Ware, wrote an entire book dealing what he believes to be hierarchal roles within the Godhead that, he claims, serve as examples for implementing the same type of hierarchy into the marriage relationships of men and women.
Another well known complementarian leader, Charles Stanley, wrote that if no hierarchy could be found within the Godhead, then no basis at all could be found for assigning hierarchal roles, based solely on sex, to human beings.
It is crucial to understand that on this one point (that an authority/submission structure exists within the Eternal Godhead) hinges the entire doctrine of female subordination to male authority.
This thread is dedicated to discussing this one aspect of complementarianism.
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Post by amazinggrace on Dec 29, 2014 7:50:40 GMT
Hi Jocelyn,Rhonda here. I tried posting this earlier but it didn't seem to come up so I am trying again. Sorry if it posts twice.
Philippians 2 vs 5-8 says: in your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God,did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Jesus said 'the Father and I are one'. That Bible passage in Philippians does not say that He was not equal with His Father but that He chose to make himself nothing. I believe this is the complete opposite to what Bruce Ware says that there is hierarchical roles in the Godhead and to use the Bible to justify inequality is nothing more than trying to shape the trinity to fit into a human desire.
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Post by jocelyn andersen on Dec 30, 2014 16:15:43 GMT
Quote from excellent article on the subject of using the Trinity to shore up the uniquely complementarian doctrine of the Eternal Subordination of Women "Every evangelical who has written in support of the eternal subordination of the Son is committed to the permanent subordination of women in the church and the home. This agenda is what drives them to advocate the eternal subordination of the Son...What has to be noted in all this is the circular nature of this reasoning...A novel theology was first devised to theologically ground the permanent subordination of women based on the argument that men and women are equal yet differentiated by their God-given, unchanging roles; and then the wording and ideas used to develop this novel case for the permanent subordination of women were utilized to develop a novel doctrine of the Trinity that spoke of the Son as equal, yet eternally subordinated in role or function; and then this novel doctrine of the Trinity was quoted to theologically justify and explain the permanent role subordination of women. If this line of reasoning is correct, then this means that the doctrine of the Trinity has been reformulated in terms of fallen male-female relationships to support what was already believed: women are permanently subordinated to men. Instead of correcting sinful human thinking, the primary doctrine of the Christian faith, the doctrine of the Trinity, has become a theological justification for such thinking. In the end, the doctrine of the Trinity, rather than being seen as a charter for human liberation, has become a charter for human oppression." www.catalystresources.org/the-eternal-subordination-of-the-son-of-god-and-the-permanent-subordination-of-women/
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Post by amazinggrace on Dec 31, 2014 4:48:30 GMT
Extremely interesting article. Something that was glaringly obvious in that article Jocelyn was this: 'Grudem and the many evangelicals who follow him.....'. It is easy to follow someone when they preach what suits you. I thought we were followers of Christ. What position does the Holy Spirit hold if the Son is sub-ordinate to the Father. Wouldn't their trinity be more of a 'Binity'. Only two persons.
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Post by ishshahsstory on Jan 1, 2015 3:29:32 GMT
To believe there is hierarchy in the Trinity, or in the eternal subordination of the Son, is to have a total lack of revelation of the One-ness of God. For one to submit, there must be some level of disagreement, because submission is to submit our wills to another's will. In the Oneness of the Trinity there is no place for submission, because all three Divine Personalities are in total agreement: that is part of their Oneness. And God is One. Didn't Jesus pray for us to be one as He was one with the Father? In a marriage between believers are we not believers first, husband and wife second? Are not believers called into the same model of one-ness as the Trinity as per Jesus prayer? If that one-ness is being pursued and practised, how does the doctrine that one gender must always be submissive and the other always in charge fit with that? It doesn't.
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